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YOLO COUNTY NEWS
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Second-alarm blaze damages two West Davis homes

By
From page A3 | July 28, 2013 | 11 Comments

The Davis Fire Department is investigating the cause of a Friday morning blaze that heavily damaged a West Davis home and spread to a neighboring structure.

Capt. Bobby Weist said the fire broke out shortly before 2 a.m. at the single-story home in the 1300 block of Marina Circle, damaging roughly a third of the structure and extending to the exterior of the home next door.

Both homes were occupied at the time, and the residents “self-evacuated to the back yard and were trapped there during the extinguishing of the fire,” Weist said. No injuries were reported.

Davis and UC Davis fire crews initially responded to the incident, which was upgraded to second-alarm status that brought in additional assistance from the Woodland, Dixon and West Sacramento fire departments, Weist said.

Most of the damage to the neighboring home was limited to the exterior, although the heat from the blaze shattered windows and caused some additional smoke damage, according to Weist.

Crews cleared the scene at about 6:30 a.m. Friday, and total losses to the two homes were still being calculated as of Friday evening, Weist said.

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Discussion | 11 comments

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  • Judi WilliamsJuly 29, 2013 - 2:03 pm

    The question that needs to be asked is "Why did the first rig at the fire have to wait 3 minutes before being able to aggressively attack the fire before a second alarm arrived?" Could it be that the change to a 3 person crew be the answer to the excessive damage that occurred? Maybe that policy is "penny wise and pound foolish". A very similar fire in the exact neighborhood a year ago with a 4 person crew was handled with one alarm and the damage was limited to the single structure, principally the garage. Please check the facts for yourself.

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  • Rich RifkinJuly 29, 2013 - 6:03 pm

    Judi, there is no reason why a 3-man crew cannot immediately fight a fire, even under OSHA rules which all departments adhere to. That is, of course, the case in Woodland, West Sac, Vacaville and everywhere else they use 3-man crews. In this case, the first arriving engine (E32) likely was assessing the situation and setting up equipment when E34 arrived. According to dispatch records, the 1349 Marina Circle fire required 5 engines + R31 + TR34 and 3 other emergency response vehicles. That does not compare with the 2012 garage fire you (incorrectly) claim was "a very similar fire. And as it happens, we now know that a 3-man crew in the Eel Place fire could have legally fought it just the same as the 4-man crew did. It did not meet the 2-in, 2-out standards, according to reporting done by The Davis Vanguard.

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  • RyanJuly 30, 2013 - 4:48 pm

    Rich, there is a reason a crew can't imidiatly fight a fire its called 2in-2out. It takes less than 2 minutes to put a single line in place and be ready to enter a building. E32 was waiting at least 60 seconds for E34 to arrive so they could enter the building. A fire can make extreme progress in 60 seconds. Your right it's not a similar fire because the crew on eel (who had 4 people) made entry into the building imidiatly. And this stopped any fire extension into the attic. A 3 person crew can't enter an IDLH atmosphere. I would bet smoke conditions on eel and Marina were down to the floor in the house, and that atmosphere would be considered IDLH.

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  • Rich RifkinJuly 30, 2013 - 7:15 pm

    "Rich, there is a reason a crew can't immediately fight a fire: its called 2in-2out." ...... A 3-man crew CAN immediately fight a fire--in all circumstances--once they have assessed the situation and have their equipment set up. Often, during that process, a second engine will arrive. ...... The 2-in, 2-out rule applies when 2 firefighters need to be sent inside a hazardous situation (usually a fire) where the hazard is determined to be immediately dangerous to life or health. In those cases, OSHA requires 2 firefighters on the outside, also. "You're right it's not a similar fire because the crew on Eel (who had 4 people) made entry into the building immediately." ...... The Davis Vanguard reported that in the Eel garage fire, where 2 firefighters from E34 entered the house through the front door and used a hose to push the flames out of the garage and away from the house was not an IDLH situation. As such, there was no need for 2 firefighters to be outside. ....... The much more important lesson from the Eel fire is that the homeowner was extremely lucky that E32 was not downtown when 9-1-1 was called. Because of the inefficiencies created by the 4-4-4 staffing model that your union loves, E32 is VERY OFTEN repositioned outside of West Davis and during those times under 4-4-4, West Davis had no nearby coverage. Even worse, because of your union's indifference to public safety, Ryan, E34 was until very recently prohibited from being a first responder inside the city limits. And that, too, was a big problem for public safety, because with E32 out of position and E34 forced to wait for E32 to drive from miles away, no engines were covering West Davis for long stretches. The border drop--that your union opposed--and the use of 3-3-3-2--which your union opposed--together should make public safety in Davis much better for fire and medical response.

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  • D Green...July 31, 2013 - 9:53 am

    Wow Rifkin, can you please explain to me the definition of an IDLH atmosphere? You seem to be on top of all this. Rich you haven't the slightest idea of what you're talking about. We can all see your clear agenda of how you feel about the City of Davis Firefighters. Did they specifically do something to you? If you're going to try and discredit them can you at least have your facts straight. Are you jealous of them? You speak as if you were on the fire engine fighting a fire? Have you ever been in a situation where life or death decision has to be made in a split second? I don't hear them trying to tell you how to write a bunch of lies in the newspaper. Oh that's right they have integrity. Please, get off your embellished soapbox and write something good that can actually make a difference in this city. Really not sure how you can sleep at night.

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  • Rich RifkinJuly 31, 2013 - 7:25 pm

    Greenie: "Rich you haven't the slightest idea of what you're talking about." ...... That's an interesting comment, Greenie. It's interesting because you, a union firefighter who should know more than most about IDLH than a layman knows, never pointed out one thing I got wrong. ...... "We can all see your clear agenda of how you feel about the City of Davis Firefighters." ...... I have no agenda other than the public good. I am, however, willing to point out the obvious: Your union has been engaged in the process of corrupting the politics of Davis, a city where 81% of your union's members do not live, for the last 20+ years--basically, the entire time Bobby Weist has run your group. And your union has done this for its own benefits, not for the public good. Don't pretend for a second that your union cares first and foremost about public safety. Your union cares about more pay and benefits for its members, and in every instance when that has run up against public safety, your union has sided against the public good and for its members' benefits.

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  • Rich RifkinJuly 31, 2013 - 7:27 pm

    Greenie: "Did they specifically do something to you?" ...... They have harmed Davis by their unethical actions in our politics. Since I moved here as a 1 year old in 1965, I have lived in Davis almost all of my life. Your union does not care about my home town. Your union has helped to put Davis nearly into insolvency where the streets are barely maintained and our debts are skyrocketting. So in that respect, yes, that is the harm your union has brought to me and to everyone else who loves this town and calls it their home. Perhaps if you guys lived here, you would feel differently about the bad actions of Local 3494.

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  • RyanJuly 31, 2013 - 8:10 pm

    OSHA states that “once fire fighters begin the interior attack on an interior structural fire, the atmosphere is assumed to be IDLH and paragraph 29 CFR 1910.134(g)(4) [two-in/two-out] applies.” OSHA defines interior structural fire fighting “as the physical activity of fire suppression, rescue or both inside of buildings or enclosed structures which are involved in a fire situation beyond the incipient stage.” OSHA further defines an incipient stage fire in 29 CFR 1910.155(c)(26) as a “fire which is in the initial or beginning stage and which can be controlled or extinguished by portable fire extinguishers, Class II standpipe or small hose systems without the need for protective clothing or breathing apparatus.” Any structural fire beyond incipient stage is considered to be an IDLH atmosphere by OSHA. A garage fire is a structural fire and the crew CAN'T enter the building until 2in/2out is in place. If the crew was able to make an aggressive interior fire attack they could have stopped it from spreading to the attic and the neighboring house. Both Eel and Marina were IDLH atmospheres and required 2in/2out (both past incipient phase upon arrival of first engine). So maybe you should do some research before believing everything you read on the "vanguard." 4 FF are better for the community, and apparently you forgot that the union supported the boundary drop. Once again you pull statements out of thin air, because you don't have a clue. Sounds like YOU have no internist in the public safety of this community.

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  • RyanJuly 31, 2013 - 8:19 pm

    OSHA states that “once fire fighters begin the interior attack on an interior structural fire, the atmosphere is assumed to be IDLH and paragraph 29 CFR 1910.134(g)(4) [two-in/two-out] applies.” OSHA defines interior structural fire fighting “as the physical activity of fire suppression, rescue or both inside of buildings or enclosed structures which are involved in a fire situation beyond the incipient stage.” OSHA further defines an incipient stage fire in 29 CFR 1910.155(c)(26) as a “fire which is in the initial or beginning stage and which can be controlled or extinguished by portable fire extinguishers, Class II standpipe or small hose systems without the need for protective clothing or breathing apparatus.” Any structural fire beyond incipient stage is considered to be an IDLH atmosphere by OSHA.

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  • W ObrienJuly 31, 2013 - 9:12 pm

    How does an increase of 100 million dollars into the general fund constitute insolvency for our city? All the pundits claim we are bleeding red but the latest approved budget of over 240 million for our fair city paints a different picture. 27 million dollars are slated for roads and they don't look that bad to me (yes, I ride my bike on these roads). We continue to privatize all of our cities groups (tree trimmers, public works, park maintenance...) to out of city contractors. We keep none of that money in house. People choose to live in Davis because of its progressive ideologies where public employees are supposed to be valued. Yet we continue to devalue them by cutting away people's jobs and giving them to contractors outside our city. Furthermore, to make it easier to wash down the water rate increase, we will begin receiving monthly bills for City Services. Those 6 extra bills a year will cost us almost a quarter of a million dollars. I don't feel better getting charged that much to receive twice as many bill for my water/sewer/garbage service. What makes me feel safe is a solid public safety program for our city and 3 is never safer than 4.

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  • RyanJuly 31, 2013 - 9:24 pm

    OSHA states that “once fire fighters begin the interior attack on an interior structural fire, the atmosphere is assumed to be IDLH and paragraph 29 CFR 1910.134(g)(4) [two-in/two-out] applies.” OSHA defines interior structural fire fighting “as the physical activity of fire suppression, rescue or both inside of buildings or enclosed structures which are involved in a fire situation beyond the incipient stage.” OSHA further defines an incipient stage fire in 29 CFR 1910.155(c)(26) as a “fire which is in the initial or beginning stage and which can be controlled or extinguished by portable fire extinguishers, Class II standpipe or small hose systems without the need for protective clothing or breathing apparatus.” Any structural fire beyond incipient stage is considered to be an IDLH atmosphere by OSHA. A garage fire is a structural fire and the crew CAN'T enter the building until 2in/2out is in place. If the crew was able to make an aggressive interior fire attack they could have stopped it from spreading to the attic and the neighboring house. Both Eel and Marina were IDLH atmospheres and required 2in/2out (both past incipient phase upon arrival of first engine). So maybe you should do some research before believing everything you read on the "vanguard." 4 FF are better for the community, and apparently you forgot that the union supported the boundary drop. Once again you pull statements and accusations out of thin air, because you don't have a clue. Sounds like YOU have NO internist in the public safety of this community.

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